Note: this is a personal opinion piece for my blog. It is not an official statement coming from We Distribute, nor does it articulate that I feel as though everything is horrible and bad. It mostly serves a purpose of talking through my feelings.
Today was interesting, but in the kind of way that gives me a migraine. A shiny new non-profit organization dedicated to advancing the Fediverse launched, and We Distribute was there to put out an article announcing it.
What followed was an all-day social networking parade, showering Evan with accolades and congratulations. And you know what? They should be. Getting an organization off the ground is hard work, the Fediverse needs an organization dedicated towards marketing, advocacy, and inter-project collaboration. I wish them the best.
So, what’s the problem?
What’s in a Name?
The term “Social Web” has been used on and off for a little while now, most prominently being offered as a simpler, cleaner name than “Fediverse”. Unfortunately, the term is a bit vague, in that it simply puts two words in a blender and mixes them together.
During a discussion prior to FediForum March 2024, I proposed an alternate name: “Womp Triangle”, because it holds just about as much meaning and insight as the words “Social” and “Web” put together. Without any defining characteristics, it’s hard to derive meaning from terminology alone. It’s also confusing, because haven’t we been using the Web in a Social way since the very early days?
Womp Triangle: “a metaphorical descriptor for a federated network topology that incorporates ideas from Semantic Web, Social Web, and IndieWeb and rolls it all together into one uniform system of coherence. Informally referred to as Web 420.69.”
My goofy name ended up as a funny piece of online performance art (thanks, Andy Piper), but the term “Social Web” stuck. Despite its blandness, it’s a lot less clunky than the term “Fediverse”, even though I think Fediverse has more juice.
More to the Point
Here’s the thing: in the time that term started seeing traction, a number of different things fell under the banner of the Social Web term: ActivityPub and the Fediverse? Social Web. Bluesky and Nostr? Social Web. Matrix and IndieWeb? Fuck it, why not? Social Web.
So, we have this kinda-vague, kinda-umbrella term that covers a lot of different things. But you know what? That’s okay. It’s inclusive, and can describe a lot of competing and collaborating efforts under one umbrella.
Context Collapse
The creation of The Social Web Foundation deftly and carefully subverts that context, in such a way that the term “Social Web” only equals “Fediverse”. It even goes as far as wringing out the Fediverse’s own historical context as a multiprotocol polyglot network, by equating the Fediverse to just the ActivityPub protocol. Hey, look everybody, it’s Evan, the bold creator of The Social Web / Fediverse, with his one protocol that powers the entire thing!
Suddenly, neither label is all-that-inclusive anymore. We’ve managed to take one term with maybe 8 different contexts (Social Web), and a second term with 4 or 5 different contexts (Fediverse), and we…folded it all into one exclusive meaning. Suddenly, Bluesky and Nostr aren’t part of The Social Web anymore, and maybe don’t even fall into the definition of the Fediverse. Y’know, despite there being protocol bridges that let us all talk to each other.
Let’s Talk About Evan
You might think I’m diving into this with sour grapes, but I’m really not. I love Evan. He has a personality that lights up a room. When you talk to him about ideas and visions of the future, you can come away from it feeling incredibly inspired. Evan is good people, and I wish I talked to him more often. I mean that sincerely.
There’s an aspect to Evan’s personality that’s kind of concerning, though, and I’ve seen multiple red flags come up this year. The first was a response to an article draft about fixing ActivityPub’s perceived shortcomings. Admittedly, I was asking for his feedback, failed to mention that this was only a first draft, and didn’t give him the full context of what my intentions were. I reached out, and was surprised to see this.


Given that our interactions prior had been nothing but positive, this shift in tone took me off-guard. After some back-and-forth, and me explaining in detail what my aim was, he apologized. We reconciled, exchanged some kind words of mutual support, and all was forgiven.
I’d like to think that overall, we’re friends, and on good terms with one another. However, one unfortunate tic that I’ve started to notice from him involves how he talks about his project vs how he talks about competing independent efforts that have little to do with him. In the past, Evan has characterized efforts such as Bluesky’s ATProto as “a dangerous distraction“, and that BlueSky is “a bad product“, presumably because Bluesky ultimately settled on creating their own bespoke protocol after seeing that nothing quite fit what they were trying to do.


There’s a level of fractal wrongness here that’s as remarkable as it is telling. While these may have been plans for the early Bluesky project by a pre-Elon Twitter, the reality of ATproto and Bluesky is markedly different today. The current shape of the protocol is influenced by the involvement of people such as Paul Frazee, who has years and years of development experience in building for varying kinds of distributed systems. Notably, he did work on both Secure Scuttlebutt as well as Beaker Browser, and some of the lessons there have informed the architectural decisions ATproto have made today. Sure, there’s still areas where Bluesky could be “more decentralized” than it is currently, but…y’know, they already have working federation between PDS’es and are focusing on getting the various layers of their stack right?
More recently, Evan randomly communicated to somebody that their own protocol effort was a waste of time, and that they should build on ActivityPub instead. He has since edited his language and deleted the offending post, but the messaging was effectively: “You should build on ActivityPub. If you’re not going to build on it, then your project is a waste of people’s time.”



This seems to be a recurring pattern with Evan, whether the subject is AT Protocol, Bluesky, Nostr, Veilid, whatever: if you’re not working on the thing I’m building, your thing is undermining the collective efforts of this community. Which, if you think about this from the perspective of decentralization…that’s a fucking ridiculous take.
I understand the argument that “having too many standards can hinder innovation and hurt collaborative efforts”, and while I don’t completely agree with it, I can see some validity in how the case can be made. However, telling people they’re wrong because their standard didn’t get a seal of approval slapped on the side of it after a grueling and miserable design-by-committee process is fucking insane. Which, by the way, was in fact traumatizing for several people trying to develop a protocol standard.

Why is he like this?
Despite a small smattering of examples that may or may not be deemed “cherry picked” by the peanut gallery, Evan is still a great human being. I mean that sincerely, and I’m not trying to undermine his efforts by portraying him in some extremely unfavorable light. That goes against my principles both as a journalist and as someone who has been in the space almost as long as he has.
I think a lot of his hostility stems from how Evan has identified with ActivityPub and the Fediverse over time. From his perspective, this entire thing is his baby, his claim to fame, his life’s work. And there’s a lot to be proud of! However, Evan has also experienced personal setbacks and hardships, first in the shutdown of his company, StatusNet, and later in the prolonged, drawn-out development of Pump.io, the client API of which would eventually form the prototype for ActivityPub. While the seeds of his efforts have bore much fruit today, there was a period between 2013 to 2019 where Evan wasn’t really present on any part of the Fediverse. It wasn’t until the later stage of Mastodon’s success that he rejoined the network. He’s thriving today, and I’m happy for him.
Look man, I get it. There have been plenty of days where I blame myself for the direction Diaspora took. The feelings of loss I get from thinking about what could have been, and what happened instead, have had a monumentally bad impact on my mental health. It has taken years for me to accept failure, to grow into who I am today, and to try, try again. I thought the thing I was a part of was going to change the world, then it all went off-track for a variety of reasons.
Does any of this matter?
I don’t know. I did a lot of thinking throughout the day today, and felt sick to my stomach about all this. For at least a few hours, I wondered if any of the work I’ve done in this space actually fucking matters at all, or if the entire thing has been a waste.
Maybe I’m making a big deal out of nothing, maybe things aren’t that bad, maybe I should just shut my fat fucking mouth. What I do know is that, in trying to erect this new foundation, we’re also rewriting history in the process, and selectively choosing who to include, and who to forget about. Some people have posted backlash about corporations such as Flipboard and Meta and a “chosen few” Fediverse platforms having seats at the Partners table, but I kind of think that’s of marginal importance. Oh, Meta’s going to have a seat at the table?! They’re going to write protocol extensions and implementations that inherently favor their bottom line?! I’m fucking shocked.
Except, y’know, the W3C isn’t exactly a left-anarchist’s paradise, where all of the members are tenured staff singing kumbaya, as they ethically hand-craft technology from reclaimed code. Corporations have a massive presence in the W3C, and the SocialWG is no different. Any Meta, Amazon, or Google can waltz in. We have to break this illusion that the organization is anything other than hired people sponsored by corporations working on some common shared goals together.
Wrap it up, asshat
My growing concern is over what place the community will have in the governance process, or any decision-making process. As the echelons of power consolidate into a handful of decision-makers, as the emphasis focuses more on making a profit, as the gap widens between “leadership” and the poor sods hanging around at the bottom, the mutual aspect of community welfare gives way towards a dynamic very reminiscent of what we were all trying to get away from at one point or another: a fucking mall on the Internet, where people used to hang out.
My simple plea is this: don’t hasten that division. Don’t isolate yourself into an exclusive corner and denote all other efforts as wrong and inferior and bad. Immerse yourself in the people, and be of the people. Be a part of them. Learn from them. Humble yourself. Dig deep into community spaces, rather than creating an exclusive ivory tower for yourself and a privileged few. Most of them don’t give two fucks about this place, beyond the status of appearing cutting-edge, the privilege of being our gatekeepers, and the benefit of building giant funnels for our attention, our data, and our money to fall into.
I still very much believe in the Fediverse, ActivityPub, and what The Social Web Foundation is trying to do. As Rabble once put it: we’re all part of Team Open. There’s no reason for us to want to try to destroy each other.




I get a json response (AP
Note) when opening the link with desktop chrome/firefox user agent, is this intentional? @deadsuperhero@mkljczk @sean @deadsuperhero I think this happens sometimes with WordPress’s ActivityPub implementation.
it's likely related to some caching mechanism (plugin?) that's not aware of the
Acceptheader@mkljczk @sean @deadsuperhero Yeah, that what I heard. Are you talking about the link to socialwebfoundation.org (we’ve had reports of this since yesterday) or Sean’s blog?
Sean's blog. @swf worked for me yesterday. Or maybe I was browsing it on a phone, I don't remember.
Now the /@swf link redirects to the homepage, which is unintuitive and there's no call to follow it from your Fediverse server. This made some people think the only social-ish presence of SWF is on Threads and Twitter.
@sean thanks! This is a good article and the criticism is all valid.
Hi Evan, thanks for taking the time to respond to my humble blog. I’ll try to take the time to address your points individually, to the best of my ability.
Also: I’m sorry. You came to me last week with a news story about this new foundation you’re launching, and all the things you hope to accomplish with it. It probably feels weird for me to report on it, and then turn around and pour out all these feelings that seem to go in a different direction. I promise, I have no ulterior motive, and I’m not trying to stab you in the back. It’s just that complicated feelings finally bubbled over.
@sean it’s not a problem at all. We have been allies and friends for over a decade. The call is coming from inside the house, and I appreciate your thoughts.
I appreciate your thoughts, too. I just feel like we have a moment to do some really great things, but that requires us to overcome mistakes that were made in the past. That requires humility, self-awareness, and a willingness to listen to others and make changes based on feedback.
@sean in particular, my advocacy for a single, standardized protocol for the social web.
I believe that the social web is very important, and that its growth is best served with a single protocol.
I find it frustrating that you think ActivityPub is important to me because I am involved in making and maintaining it. It’s just the opposite: I’m doing this work because I think it’s important.
And I think it’s important because it is an open standard that many people work on. It’s our best hope.
Here’s the thing that’s hard to ignore: “Social Web” was a communal term used separately to include different projects, efforts, and initiatives. To take the word and say it only applies to one type of group working on one type of project or protocol effectively sweeps a lot of history under the rug. It’s hard not to look at that and not feel at least somewhat cynical.
I get that it’s hard to come up with a new, unique name, and there’s probably a good reason you didn’t go with “ActivityPub Foundation” or “Fediverse Foundation”. It’s just that this application of “Social Web Foundation” is almost as problematic as adopting the term “Open Web Foundation”.
I don’t have a better name or solution.
@sean that said, there’s more to life than the social web. Making cool things with computers is good. Connecting people is good.
I wish that people who do these things would align their work with the goal of building the social web, but if not, hey.
@sean that all said, all of the examples you give are of people actively talking shit about ActivityPub.
Almost always, the person is asked why they don’t use ActivityPub, the open standard that connects tens of millions of people already.
Because everyone knows that using the open standard is the default choice. You should start there, and only create something else in extreme circumstances.
Here’s the thing: our opinions may differ on what it means to talk shit about something. I have no doubt that some people have been less than charitable in evaluating the spec, but I feel that even the more difficult criticism is sometimes warranted.
Take, for example, the lengthy feedback that @hrefna@hachyderm.social often posts when criticizing ActivityPub. This isn’t some hater or someone trying to poison the well, but a person who has built multiple implementations several times over, and has deep concerns about the specification and its shortcomings.
Instead of reflecting on feedback from people like this, and how we can collectively make things better, you lean into one of your worst tendencies: equate all critiques as the opinions of haters who want to talk trash, and then block them.
These are the very people we could be taking serious lessons from, with regards on how a future version of the spec could be better. Ignoring their input doesn’t fix anything, or make the situation better in any way.
@sean Insisting that people unblock you is creepy and abusive. I don’t know if I have this person blocked or not, but please don’t do this.
That is not what I am saying. This is less about undoing an action, and more about being cognizant of a behavior.
Blocking someone because they offered deep criticisms of things they found to be wrong, and assuming they’re bad faith actors / haters / trolls, is akin to covering your ears and refusing to hear what they have to say.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t use the block action when it feels appropriate, or that you should unblock people you blocked before. Just that this action requires awareness, and an ability to separate yourself from a context that could very well not actually have anything to do with you, and everything to do with The Thing Needing Fixing.
@sean So, again, it’s not anybody’s business why or how I block someone. Don’t make assumptions about why someone uses the block button and don’t blame people for blocking for the wrong reasons.
Everyone has access to the public venues where we discuss ActivityPub, as long as they comply with the codes of conduct there. I think if someone wants to be heard, that’s a great place to do it.
You’re right, it’s not. It’s just that, if a person has legitimate feedback and ends up getting silenced, what drive would they have to go to a forum, register, type up everything they posted before, and then talk to you there? They’ve already been deflated by a major public figure gesturing that the important person doesn’t want to hear them.
This is how we lose people. Sometimes, we have to meet people where they’re at, or they’re not going to see a point in continuing.
@sean There are collective areas where we collaborate on ActivityPub — SWICG, SocialHub. People who want to have input on ActivityPub should participate there. I don’t think having a connection to me personally is required to be part of ActivityPub.
@sean And instead of answering truthfully (“we are building a business around a protocol”, “I think it would be fun to hack my own protocol”, “I have a Messiah complex”), they pretend that their reasons are about some imagined technical faults in ActivityPub.
The problem I have with this stance is the idea that ActivityPub is this beautiful, perfect, shining thing that is immune to criticism, and that any and all critiques are somehow imaginary. That’s having your cake and eating it, too. My opinion is that many of these efforts take inspiration from what came before them, and try to innovate in a way that not only suits their needs, but doesn’t have to sit through a standards body where various subgroups raise frustrating quibbles and demand adjustments be made to serve them, in addition to everybody else. Christine once mentioned in passing that the AP standardization work was hellish for this very reason: one group would be satisfied, only for the JSON-LD / Social Graph people to get flustered and demand that certain things work *their* way instead.
We cannot deny that the design-by-committee approach is a fraught one, and can lead to deficiencies in the product they produce. Instead of ignoring this detail, we should be looking at ways to actionably fix this.
@sean I’m not obligated to let those false claims go by without comment.
I can modulate my tone, though. You pointed out an example where I called a group of people liars. I changed it to say I don’t believe them. It’s functionally the same thing, but the second one is less harsh.
Are they really false claims, though? I think it’s fine to not agree on approach, or to say “We do x because y is important to our design”, but labeling competing ideas as heretical is not going to win you any brownie points when it comes to representing a community, or advocating what it has to offer.
I think it’s fine to say “I disagree with this approach because of x, y, z. We do a, b, c instead, because we prefer this model of doing things. But you have to remember: as a public figure, simply labeling critiques as falsehoods and not even bothering to investigate why you’re doing things differently is counter-productive. All of these different efforts are tackling problems in unique ways, and I think we should be embracing some of their best ideas.
@sean I’ll try to keep it in mind next time a startup CEO is on stage telling untruths about the social web, or when a hacker’s new protocol manifesto is making the rounds.
This is the exact kind of smug, self-assured, passive-aggresive tone that is driving people away from the Fediverse, though. Many of the criticisms about the Fediverse, its overlapping communities, and its overall ecosystem are entirely valid.
You are in a unique position to not only advocate for the Fediverse and ActivityPub and their respective strengths, but to double down and actually make things better. That requires carrying the spec forward, fixing the various things that are wrong, and actually implementing solutions instead of hammering on and on about things like LOLA or E2E Encryption, as those things are effectively vaporware right now that get carted out whenever it’s convenient to make a case about how we’re “going places”, when in fact most of the heavy lifting is being done at the grassroots level with FEPs.
@sean Yeah, protocol work takes time. I do think a lot of great work is happening in FEPs.
@evan @sean This kind of thread makes me so happy. One of the biggest issues of today’s time is how quick everyone is to get upset and not engage in conversation and attempt to find understanding. Thanks for explaining your side of things Mr. Evan and allowing Sean the space to explore and express how he’s feeling without you feeling attacked. I know you both deeply care about this space and want to see it reach its best form!
@damon @sean thanks, that means a lot!
For the record, I believe that the social web is very important, and that its growth is best served with a set of open protocols that many servers adopt consistently and in good faith.
Hi Chris, thanks for joining the conversation.
Overall, we’re on the same page here. I agree that open protocols and open platforms are essential for the longevity of using the entire Web as an interconnected social network. However, consider that all of these things could be considered open protocols for social: Matrix, IndieWeb, Diaspora, OStatus, Nostr, DFRN, Zot, and yes, even AT Proto. This is just a small sample of various efforts from over the years.
All of these things are readily available for people to use, open for anyone to implement, and can at least theoretically be used to plug into a network with other people in it.
My main criticism is not that The Social Web Foundation simply picked one of those protocols. It’s that it coopted a term that largely included many of them in a wider context, pushed them out, and then folded the context to basically say “Social Web = Fediverse = ActivityPub”. Anything that is not ActivityPub is suddenly not Social Web, which is a very weird way to frame things, given the context that a bunch of communities that were also part of that umbrella. Heck, even the Fediverse itself has been a multiprotocol network for many years. Just because Mastodon and ActivityPub have become the biggest things in the space doesn’t change that fact.
Paired with some of he hostility Evan has held towards competing efforts, along with the ways he has publicly reacted towards criticism of ActivityPub, I find myself feeling concerned about his promotion of the SWF, along with the fact that he is effectively acting as its face and voice. Some platforms, such as micro.blog, are also feeling a bit left out, as no one considered reaching out for their inclusion, either. Seeing a couple of big corporate logos and a few select community projects has made more than a few people uncomfortable, in the sense that it unconsciously points to who the organization is gravitating towards.
I think if the SWF is to move forward and actually tackle the goals it says it will, it would strongly benefit from having a dedicated person (or multiple people) to do the community building, one-on-one meetings with stakeholders, public messaging, and inter-project relations work. I am not necessarily convinced that Evan alone is the best person for this, when the public interactions I’ve highlighted could very well be a liability in accomplishing the mission the SWF intends to carry out. This is not to say that he’s incapable, just that the community side of the house requires a very specific skillset and approach.
You people talk like such soft, special, embarrassing snowflakes. No normal conversations – everything is prefaced with praise and love and then a backhanded compliment follows – it’s pathetic and sad.
Evan and I have been friends for the better part of a decade, and have worked in the same space all that time. We may disagree on some things, but I love him and respect all the work he’s doing.
However, being friends does not equate to being an uncritical cheerleader. I spoke up because Social Web is historically a much more inclusive term, and reducing it to such a smaller scope is problematic. My concern is that the cooption of this term, plus the way one of the faces of the movement talks about competing efforts, could ultimately hurt what we’re all trying to do here.
I wrote about the Social Web Foundation (SWF) last week and suggested there’s some controversy about whether the term ‘social web’ refers to the entire fediverse or to ActivityPub implementations alone. This post is an instance of that controversy boiling over. I’m always wary of attempting to place the governance of a decentralized network under a single entity, despite the calls for governance, coordination and organization around a collective purpose.